In this episode, I interview real estate investor Bobby Tindal. Bobby started investing in real estate three years ago. In this short period, he has a full-time real estate business flipping, renovating, leasing, and selling properties with financing. We talk about business relationships, problem solving, exit strategies, and creative real estate.
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Interview With Bobby Tindal Of REI Tactical
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I got another good episode for you. In fact, I’m going to have a series of episodes coming to you over the next couple of weeks here. These are all going to be instructors that are going to be at the REUP, Real Estate Investing UP in Columbia, South Carolina. If you’re up in that area and you want to attend a good event, I’ll be there myself. There’ll be a number of speakers that I’ll have on the show over the next couple of episodes.
It’s going to be up in Columbia, South Carolina on July 29th and 30th, 2023. You can go to the website, which is REUPMeetup.com. You can learn more about the event there. You’ll see all the various speakers, all the topics that are going to be discussed there as well. I got a promo code for you as a reader of the show and that is Notes. If you put in the promo code Notes, you’ll get 20% off the attendance price there. Do check that out if you’re real estate and real estate notes involved.
I believe the best-prepared real estate investors are going to be the ones that understand the brick-and-mortar side of the business, the more traditional side of the business, but also the financial and creative side of the business, which is the note side of the business. When you have that, you’re fully equipped for the industry because we will go through cycles. We’re in the middle of a potential change in the real estate market coming up in the future. We’ve already seen interest rates go up. All these things affect not only traditional real estate but the note industry. Certainly, as an investor, you’ve got to understand what these changes are going to do.
I’ve seen this happen over the years. I’ve been doing this for over 30 years. Through the cycles I’ve seen, the people that try to stay and stick with one thing that worked, all of a sudden, find out that they’re in a different marketplace, what they were doing before isn’t working, and they’re unprepared. You certainly don’t want to be in that situation. Get yourself prepared. That way, no matter which path you get into the real estate finance side of things, you’ll be best prepared to do that.
Bobby’s a good example of that. My guest is Bobby Tindal. He’s up in South Carolina. He has a military background, retired from the Army, and is a relatively new investor in real estate, but has taken it through a whole direct approach, taken a lot of massive action on it, and has done extremely well. I’m glad to have him on the show. Bobby, welcome.
Thank you so much. I appreciate having me.
Again, you’ve only been investing in real estate full-time now since 2020?
We started our company, REITactical, in June of 2020 while I was still working a regular W-2 job as a clinician with the Hanger Clinic. I was an orthoptist and we do orthopedic braces. Some of the other individuals in our office did prosthetic lenses. Most people are familiar with what prosthetics are. I had been in that field for almost 30 years and been a clinic manager, ran different departments through that timeline, and had my own practice for 10 years. I had a lot of employees and had some W-2 stuff going on. I knew a lot about that side of the house, how to build a business, and how to manage people.
It was a few years prior to that when I realized I needed to get into real estate to help me find out a way to get away from that atmosphere. You’re working for someone else, someone’s quantifying your time in relation to an hourly rate, and it gives you the ability to have a little more freedom. I spent a lot of years coaching my kids through softball, volleyball, and things like that, and I had to work around my work schedule. It was always that lifestyle where work had to be done so you could provide for your family, and then the family was always where you could fit them in.
You’re trading time for dollars.
I don’t know if you ever had that anxiety feeling where you feel like you have to get something done or the gloom and doom were of coming in on you because you were like, “I’m stuck.” I started by signing up for BiggerPockets.com, getting on some different webinars, learning from some audiobooks, and self-educated for probably two years trying to figure out what real estate was.
Were you looking at alternative investments too alongside real estate to decide what to do or you had already seen something in real estate that was attractive to you?
I had a practice that was very successful for many years. I knew how to do clinician work. I knew how to build that business. I considered doing that again. I knew that the challenges to get to that point, even though I could overcome them, I just didn’t know if I wanted to be left with that as a result at the end where I was putting myself right back into the same situation.
When I knew that real estate’s one of the biggest wealth generators out there, I was trying to figure out, “Which part of real estate? Am I seller financing my way through riches, flipping my way through houses, or wholesaling?” I started out wholesaling simply by understanding the process, understanding A2B and B2C contracts, and finding out whether or not it’s legal or not in different states. In different states, it’s frowned upon. The nature of the environment is understanding what you don’t know.Real estate is one of the biggest wealth generators out there. Click To Tweet
For my readers who may not be familiar, you can wholesale notes. You can also wholesale real estate. Explain a little bit about what you mean by that.
We found some properties that were in a foreclosure situation, and I called them up and they said, “We have been trying to sell our house, but we don’t know what to do.” I always want to be able to help people. At the time, I was still learning. I didn’t know 100% what to do, but I knew I had an avenue where I could potentially help them. I didn’t hire a coach yet at this point, so I was still doing this from what I could decipher. I read twelve books that year and you can only learn so much. You had to have some help to hold your hand.
I finally was able to take the lead and put the property on a contract for $62,000 which was his payoff. He said he didn’t want anything. He wanted to be done. He’d already been through bankruptcy and all that’s been cleared up, but they were going to auction the house. It was at the courthouse and they pushed it back one month because of my contract. They said, “We’ll give you one more month to get this contract done and then we won’t sell the house.” He needed some help getting out and moving.
I went down over to my pickup truck and we loaded up his stuff. We took it to the dump and to other places where he needed to store it. Once the contract was done, then I put it on the marketplace, which is a big mistake because all these people looking for places to rent were hitting me up. I also put it on Craigslist and I published it to some Facebook groups and local groups. Within 24 hours, I had it under contract for $120,000.
I’m like, “I’m going to make a lot of money. I need to help this guy more.” I was scared because when I was going through my education, it says, “You should make $5,000 to $15,000 on a wholesale deal. Anything else, you should do a double close.” I’m sitting there thinking, “I don’t know how to do that.” I called my attorney and I said, “How do I double close this thing?” He goes, “We could do a double close.” I’m like, “Cool.”
I went down that road and then I found out you had to pay for the house so they can transfer the house. I was like, “Crap, I don’t have that money.” I went back to the seller and I said, “I’ll tell you what. I’m going to give you $15,000 at the closing table to help you move on with your life.” He was ecstatic. He was awesome. I called the buyer and I said, “How about I give you a discount if you can close this thing within two weeks and I’ll straight up assign my contract to you?” He said, “I’d love to do that.”
I ended up doing the deal. I walked away with a $15,000 check, a huge educational lesson. The new buyer got in, renovated the property, and made it beautiful. The seller moved away. They got money. Everybody was happy. I knew this is what I wanted to do. I wanted to help people. I wholesale four deals from June to December as I was still working. I gave them my two-week notice on November 1st.
What a cool experience. It shows you there are so many different ways. A lot of people start that way in real estate where, “I’m not ready to do my own deal yet, but I found something. Where do I place it?” For those still wondering what wholesaling is, it’s identifying a deal, getting that deal under contract, and then assigning that deal to somebody else. That works on the paper side. It works on the real property side. It’s a nice way to get in. You’re not taking unnecessary risks or risks you’re not comfortable with. It worked out very well for you. Certainly, you were generous to the seller too. That put you on the path.
I loved helping that person. Every deal has a story and I’m like, “This is crazy. This is something that I could wrap my mind and my lifestyle around, which is helping people.” If I can make money that would replace my W-2 income, then why not? As I went down that road, I’m like, “I’m leaving a lot of money on the table for these buyers. Maybe if I could flip my own house, I could make $50,000 or $40,000.” I started talking to people about what I was doing. They got excited for me and said, “I’ll give you up to $300,000 to fund what you want to do in real estate. They wanted to be involved. They didn’t want to do work, so they wanted me to put their money to work.
I signed up for the coaching program to make sure I knew how to do seller finance, lease options, and everything, and to help me make sure my numbers were right. I closed eight houses that first year in 2021. I leveraged private money. I used hard money a lot, refinancing some of the properties as some of the rental properties we still hold. I keep going down that road, figuring my path out.
I go through this all the time. I’ve been an educator in the business for a long time too. You can watch as many videos and read as many books, but I tell people all the time in my own training business, “As well as I know that I can train you in this business and teach you through video, live, whatever it is, part of this learning experience is you got to do a deal. You have to go through that experience because that’s when everything becomes very real.” It involves that human component more than watching.
Every deal is different.
“That makes sense. I can do that.” You start to realize, it’s a people business that’s involved around real estate. The notes are the same way. There are people behind all of this and we’ve got to be able to communicate with those people, structure things, and create these win-win scenarios. You’ve got great opportunities. At the end of the day, people like you and I that are creative in this business, we’re problem solvers.
That’s what we tell everyone, “We look for situations. We don’t look for houses anymore.” When we can solve those situations and those problems, and it becomes a win-win for the seller, the new buyer, ourselves, our contractors, our attorneys, and our insurance agents. Everyone is involved and we’re creating this economy all around what we’re doing as a lifestyle. Controlling how much we want to work every single day, how little we want to work, and who we interact with, no one controls anything more than ourselves now. I love it.People want to control how much or how little they want to work every single day and who they interact with. Wholesaling is a good way to get started. Click To Tweet
Wholesaling is a good way to get started. It’s a good way for some people now to work through some rough times. I have a few properties that I wholesaled because I haven’t flipped them yet. I’ve got so many that I own. I’m like, “I’ll sell it to another investor and I’ll still make money.” You can’t get so one-sided on it. We have several lease option contracts. We have a few seller finance contracts. It gives us the opportunity to involve ourselves with that particular piece of real estate that otherwise, we wouldn’t have had that opportunity because we were creative in the structure of it.
You went from wholesaling and then saw, “There’s something here,” and is that when you created REITactical to make this a real business?
I wholesale my first deal as an individual and then I have my LLC formed. I wholesaled three more that year. I knew I needed to get into flips too, and I had to figure out that next piece to the puzzle. I wanted to hold rentals because I wanted passive income. I needed to know how to flip it and then refinance it and so forth. That was an evolution in my mindset as far as becoming a true investor. A lot of people say, “I’m an investor,” but they’re just flipping contracts. They’re not investing money from their own sources into a deal. Early on, one of my teachings said that a wholesaler wasn’t considered an investor. I’m like, “I want to be an investor.”
Wholesaling is more like a job when you think about it. You’re only as good as your next deal. You got one deal. Where’s your next one? You better get some deals in the pipeline here whether it’s properties like you’re doing, which we’ll get into more, or even what I do on the note side. You invest. You’re getting past a monthly income that’s coming in. Rental’s the same thing.
I like your lease option thing. It makes sense. Everybody reading, when you’re getting into this, the first couple of deals are important where you go through that process. It’s important to get focused because there’s so much within real estate and real estate notes. Where should you focus? The focus should be, “Let’s get some deals done.” You’ll start to expand upon that.
That’s when you’re starting to add new skills. You’re building more muscles in the industry. It looks like you’ve done that with the renovations that you’re doing now and then selling. You’re also looking to help people own homes by not just making them tenants, but also giving them an easy path into home ownership through the lease purchases. I like those lease purchases for people on both sides.
On my side, we buy notes that are already created once the people convert from tenants over to owners. We also do deals up in Carolina outside the Spartanburg area where we’re buying them while they’re under lease option. With that conversion over there, there’s a nice pathway there. What got you on that? How do you see that as helping people now and also into the future? I could be wrong. It looks like that’s a direction that you’re looking at for the future.
Part of my growth was I had to have a good platform to work from so I can understand what a deal is. If I was able to analyze a deal and go, “How do I structure this as a wholesale, a purchase, a flip, a rental property, or whatever?” I found REIPro as the best CRM for me because I was investing. I wasn’t just wholesaling. A lot of people use PropStream and some other software out there, but REIPro allows me to see the strategy part of it and understand I got multiple ways to buy and multiple ways to sell.
They have a feature in there called DEALPro that allows you to do hypotheticals. You can say, “If I wholesale to wholesale, this is what I can make. If I purchase to rent, this is what I’ll make annually. If I purchase to sell, this is what I’ll make on the flip.” Understanding how to initially structure the purchase of the property and already have a predetermined pathway to what your exiting might be is how you can determine, “Does this property look like a lease option purchase or is it a lease option sale?”
Legally, I had to go to my attorney and make sure that he can make it happen because there are certain rules in certain states where you can’t do a seller finance to a seller finance. There are certain things that get in the way of that process. I wanted to be clear from the perspective of where I was going that I could make it happen if I made that offer to a seller or to a distressed situation.
It’s a nice luxury to have what I call multiple outs. They’re going into a deal, it’s like, “I’m not going in with plan A as my only thing. If that doesn’t work, I’m losing money.” That’s crazy. You got to go, “I got three outs here. If this works, great. I’m making money. This works fine.” If I’m making money in all three of my outs, it’s a deal.
The thing is, with a lease option, you might find a house that is completely turnkey, ready to go, and doesn’t need a lot of work. You can lease it with the option to purchase it as long as you agree to those terms initially. You can even lease it with the option to purchase it on the exit. You can be in a sandwich option where you’re in between the two agreements with party A and party B and you’re making money through the rent roll, the down payment, or the purchase price.
You’re structuring the agreement so that you can take care of the land lording headaches from the seller by taking care of maybe the first $500 to $1,000 of repairs. The tenant that you put in there is going to call you, not them. Your agreement is with party A. They’re happy because now they’re renting to an LLC that has a track record. They know they’re going to get paid and they don’t have to chase the tenant down for a paycheck. A landlord may have those issues. They don’t have to worry about that leaky toilet because you are covering that in your agreement.
You have the option to buy it because you’ve analyzed the cash offer. You’ve analyzed what you can give them in rent. You could even do a monthly credit in there where it’s applied towards the purchase price. Sometimes, it doesn’t make sense to put the monthly credit because you get that sweet deal. When you structure your exit strategy, you want your initial strategy to have a longer period or longer term, say maybe a 3 or 5-year term, so that you have the luxury of working a 1 to 2 or maybe a 3-year deal with your end buyer or your exit strategy. It could be that where we refinance them out and keep the property because it’s cashflowing.
Let me tell you real quickly about a deal I did up in North Carolina. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Lake Lure area. Lake Lure is a highly sought-after destination vacation place, a beautiful area in the mountains. We had a property that came up on Zillow and it was $450,000, 2,900-square-foot, 4 bedrooms, 3 bath log home, 6 acres. Immediately, I’m like, “I’ve been looking in that area. I’ve been intentionally marketing to that spot because I wanted to find something that I wanted to go to. I wanted real estate there.”
As I’m looking, I found this deal. I’m like, “Crap, I’ll call him.” I called him up, and it was a for sale by owner. I talked to the individual and he was telling me that he owned a renovation company. He hasn’t renovated his own property. I said, “I’ve already run every number I’ve run up and down the sideways.” I knew my strategy. I said, “I can pay you all cash, $450,000, for this house because it’s got 6 acres.” He’s like, “Really? Wow. That’s awesome.” He was excited because he got an all-cash offer and it’s only been online for two days. He said, “We’re going to wrap this up. I’ll get you the agreements over and whatnot.” I structured everything, went, and sent it away.
He called me back two days later and he said, “Have you ever heard of a lease option?” I said, “Yeah, I’ve heard of a lease option.” He said that a company called Blackstone reached out to him and they said they would pay him $515,000 for this property. I said, “What are you talking about? Your price was $450,000.” “They’re going to pay me on a lease option.”
They said, “We’re going to give you $2,700 a month, zero down, but we’re going to do that over a 2-year period at a purchase price of $450,000, but you’ll keep cashflow coming in off of the rent, which will get you to the $515,000.” I’m like, “That’s not a bad way to look at it,” because you’re painting that picture that you’re going to give him more money. That’s all he cared about because he was trying to sell his house.
I explained to him all that and after I did that, it built more rapport with him. I said, “I’m coming up the Lake Lure next week. Can I drive by? We could sit, have a beer, and talk.” He goes, “Yeah, no problem. I’m selling to you. I don’t want to sell this other corporation because it sounded sketchy.” I’m like, “Yeah. We’re going to do this deal. We’ll make it happen. I’ll make sure you’re taken care of in the process.” I found out he was a veteran. He and I connected on that aspect of trust and brotherhood.
I’d go up there and he brings out a Bud Light beer, hands it to me, and we start talking. He tells me all these things that he would fix in the property. We’re talking about signing repairs and things like that. He immediately knocked $100,000 off the purchase price in that one visit up there because he felt like he wanted to give me a good deal. We ended up closing on the property at the $ 350,000 mark and we did it through all of our resources, all private money, and 100% private capital. Now, we own this 2,900-square-foot log home with six acres in North Carolina that we closed on. I solved his problem. He moved to Georgia. He’s got a new house down there. He’s set up.
That’s what we’re saying. We’re problem-solvers. This is still real estate, real estate notes. It’s a people business. There’s no question about it. The product’s real estate and real estate notes. There are more deals that come to you by building those relationships than anything else and that’s great. Bobby, you’re also doing seller financing and creating notes. I’ve got readers coming into this from the notes side. We’re always looking for an inventory of notes. Tell us how you started doing that and if you hold those notes or you decide to sell those.
My first lease option was I had already bought the house, renovated it, and was looking for an end buyer. That lease option contract was for a two-year period to allow them to get their credit squared away so they could eventually purchase it out. Some of those things can go weird. You can have tenants not pay or they’re non-performing on the lease agreement and things like that. You got to be equipped with quitclaim deeds and things like that to be able to take over the property and take that control.
On seller finance, it’s a little bit different because you’re talking about foreclosing on it to be able to get back involved in the property so you can re-exit that, hopefully, with a better plan. It comes down to making sure that you have a good legal team behind you to structure the notes so that they are solid and that they’re looking ahead in case those issues come up. Once you have those notes in hand, you now have that control and you’re able to do what you want to with that particular piece of real estate.
We closed on a house here in town that the seller probably wouldn’t have taken a cash offer even if they were desperate because it was a nice house. It had a renter in there. The problem is the renter was paying very low rents and there were always a little bit of repair issues. The first thing we’re going to do is go in there and renovate the property. We’re going to improve the ability to get better cashflow off the property. If we want to get that property renovated, we have to have a way to put money in that property to get our money back out of it.
A lease option doesn’t always make sense because I’m putting money into something I don’t physically own. I’m renting to own it. I have an equitable interest in it, but I don’t own it. I can put a little bit of money in the lease option, but if I’m going to go in and replace a roof or HVAC or put new flooring in it, I’d rather have it on seller finance. This is a ninja communication trick. I already know my strategy of what I want to get to. I got to make the seller understand my strategy from their perspective. It’s all about perspective.
I submitted a lease option, seller finance, and cash offer to this seller. I had a rapport with this person already. When we talked about it, she said, “I like this part of this one. Tell me a little bit about this.” I was able to break that down and understand what I was talking about to show her that this is what you’re going to be signing. I was able to negotiate seller finance on this property.
We got it under contract for $140,000. The rents in the area are $1,200 to $1,500 of rent, and the house is pretty turnkey. It doesn’t need a lot of work. It’s already got a new roof on it. It’s already got a new HVAC. Plumbing’s got a brand-new septic system and everything tied in. I need to get in there and trim some bushes and mow the grass. I might go in there and change out some upgraded interior stuff like paint and maybe some appliances or something, but this house should sell for $210,000 to $215,000 all day long.
If I go in there, make these improvements, and put it on the market, I can make a quick sale, but I have it under seller finance, 30-year amortization with a 2-year balloon. I have two years to figure out whether I want to refinance it or purchase it and own it outright with cash or whatever the case may be. The idea is I now control the real estate. I had zero money down. She gets $839 a month from me with the mortgage payment. It’s a win-win for her because she got her purchase price. It’s a win-win for me because I control real estate and I have other options.
You’re using the seller financing on the buy side as well. What you described is what I would call an ABC offer or ABC close to a seller saying, “Here’s cash. Here’s a discount price. Here’s seller financing,” and letting them pick. Once, again, whichever one they pick, it’s going to work out.
You’re okay because you’ve already analyzed it.
You’re buying on terms on those, which do make sense. Are you selling on terms as well? Are you selling stuff with seller financing or offering people lease options?
We are. We closed on another one in Downtown West Columbia and we plan on doing the seller finance option on the exit. The main reason there is an individual may not be able to go to a bank, but they need a house, they need a home, and they know what the market prices are. We’re buying it well below market prices so that we can get involved with a discount.
When you understand your strategy, I always look at a few things. I look at the discount purchase price for the resale value. Therefore, I can make a difference in what I bought it for and what I sell it for. I look at the cashflow formula and interest that you can collect could be part of that as well. No matter what, you’re always looking at how long can you go and how quickly can you get your money. When you’re waiting for your money, what can you make in the meantime?No matter what, you're always looking at how long you can go and how quickly you can get your money. And when you're waiting for your money, what can you do in the meantime? Click To Tweet
Even the properties that I’ve already flipped and I’ve refinanced as long-term rentals, we’re now looking now into possibly converting them to short-term or even selling them. We don’t get stuck. I don’t want to be stuck and think, “Here’s this piece of real estate. I can only do one thing with it.” I don’t like being in that situation. The reason why someone might think that is they’re like blinders. They feel like, “I’m not creative to figure it out.”
I did one. I did a fix and flip property I got under a hard money loan. I did some work with it. We had some issues with some contractors. I decided, “The pressure of me sticking within a timeline for fixing and flipping, renovating, and renting is bothering me. Why don’t I go find a private lender to fund the whole thing in the first position and then re-extend that timeline, but make them money as well.”
We figured it out, and we ended up doing a refinance to a private money lender. It has to be a relationship-building tool for me as well because now, they’re making some money for other potential deals down the road that they might want to be in on. It took the bank away from the equation. Now, I have a creative way to exit that property. I don’t have to go through all these loopholes to get approvals to sell or finance that property if I want to. As soon as it’s in a condition where I can seller finance it or lease option it, I can do that without my hands being tied.
That’s something empowering when you got the money behind you without having to jump through the hoops and that thing with the banks, no question.
If I get notes and things like that that we want to unload on, I’d love to have a marketplace for that.
We’ll talk when we’re up in Carolina, but maybe before then. We’re always looking for inventory. Some of the best inventory that we have is the same thing. You can go to REITactical.com and check out Bobby and his wife Lisa who own the company there. They’ve got a team of people that they work with. We love to work with somebody who’s consistent and consistently creating notes on whatever basis that is.
What’s great about it is if we understand who you’re selling to, what the prices are, and what our expectations are on our side, that makes it work for our end, then you know how to create them in a way that you already know what the price is going to be once you create the note. You already know, “I’ll be able to sell this for X amount of money.” That’s a good position to be in. My group of clients is an active base that’s always looking for that other inventory on an ongoing basis.
That hit here in the heart because I feel as though if I knew your criteria, I can add that to my list of purchasing criteria because you always make your money on the buy.
A lot of times, people come to me and go, “Here’s the note we created.” I’m like, “I got bad news for you. You created a note that’s not what the value that you think it’s going to be. If you did it like this, then we got something there.” We’ve got a lot to talk about on that end. Bobby, thanks for being on. It was a pleasure to meet you. This is the first time we’ve met and look forward to seeing you up in Carolina. REITactical.com, do you want to give out any other information if people want to reach out to you?
I want to first say thank you so much for extending the opportunity to at least have a voice and put out there what we do. I love talking about our team. I love talking about our accomplishments. I appreciate every seller, every buyer, and every person involved with what we do on a regular basis to create a lifestyle for our family. We’re pushing out a whole bunch of new social media content here pretty soon. You’re going to see a lot more involvement with my children being at these flips and things that we’ve been doing on the back end that we don’t publicize. It’s incredible to be part of something that’s a lifestyle.
We do it in the note business too. I tell my clients and prospective clients all the time, “We’re in the problem-solving business, so we help people stay in their homes. We’re a much better alternative to them than a bank. They’re not just a number with us. They’re people.” We can buy these things the way that we do it, whether it’s real estate in your case or notes in my case. We get them out of price where we do have some flexibility. We can work out some terms. We can work with you. Work with us, open communication.
Thank you so much.
You’re most welcome. It’s good to talk to you. Everybody, thanks for being on. Again, share the show if you would. If you want to reach out to me, shoot me an email. If you’re interested in the business, or getting involved in notes, it’s Kevin@KevinShortle.com or you can go to KShortle@iCloud.com. Shoot me an email. We can schedule a phone call and talk about the business and what we’d be able to do.
If you’re interested in learning more about the real estate notes side of the business, check out my book on Amazon, Real Estate Without Renters. You can look it up by that name or my name. It’s a good book. You’ll enjoy it. It’ll give you a good introduction to the business. Thanks for tuning in to the show and I look forward to talking to you all once again in the very near future.
- Real Estate Without Renters
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