Are you tired of getting stuck inside the W2 jail and wishing to liberate yourself by working for yourself? Justin Bogard is no stranger to this story; in fact, his journey is one that took him from a W2 job to quitting and transitioning into real estate. Now, he is the co-founder and Director of Operations at American Note Buyers (ANB) Funds. In this episode, Justin joins Kevin Shortle to share his journey and the lessons he learned along the way on managing funds, buying notes, and more. He also talks about the importance of putting together marketing and getting your name out there to get investors and build lasting relationships. Then, Justin takes us deep into what they do at ANB Funds, how they utilize technology, and how they are facing the current state of the market. Through ups and downs, Justin shows us that with tenacity and hard work, you can thrive in whatever environment. Join in on this conversation for more insights and inspiration.
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Interview With Justin Bogard Of ANB Funds
Thank you for always sharing the show anytime you are in an investment club, meetup, or anything like that. I do appreciate that. Don’t forget you can watch the full video on the YouTube channel. If you want to see the actual video, you can go to my YouTube channel on that. I would like to thank Noteworthy USA, one of our sponsors of the show. We did a mini-event with Noteworthy, but we’re going to see if we’re going to have another event before the end of 2023. I’ll keep you guys posted on that one.
I want to get right to our guest here. We have a lot to cover. I have a lengthy history with him. His name is Justin Bogard. We met many years ago at live training events. I used to do three-day live training events across the country. I don’t know how many he attended, but I know it was a number of them.
He built a business within this industry, which many of you are going to enjoy the path of because he started as, a lot of investors do, by looking at wholesaling notes, finding deals for other investors, starting to mature through the business, and getting to direct mail, finding zone deals, starting to then attract investors, then getting into funds and all these various avenues. A lot of that entailed putting together marketing and getting your name out there, which he has certainly done. I invited him to be an author in my book, Real Estate Without Renters, which came out a few years ago. He’s got a chapter in there. Welcome, Justin. How are you doing?
I’m pretty good. How are you?
I’m doing very well. It’s good to see you. We’ve done some business. One of the things that we work together is I train people in the business and they’re always looking for good assets. When Justin has something that he can send our way, I always appreciate taking a look at it because I know that over the years, he’s learned how to put these investments together and the deals that he finds are going to be some good deals for our investors. I do appreciate that. Why don’t we start with a little bit of your background? That’s important. I know it touched on a few of those points, but you can put a fine point on some of the things that I already mentioned about your pathway through the business and to where you are now.
This is always a fun one to ask people when you’re interviewing them. My journey began right at the end of my W-2 career, in which I was in middle management working at some print companies. I managed some mailrooms. We did what’s called variable data mailing. That’s where customers will send us their mailing address list of all the clients they want to reach out to. They usually have some art document that goes with it.
We marry the two together through software, then we print on that paper or those mailers, and then we mail that out. That’s the world that I was in before I transitioned into real estate. The reason why I transitioned into real estate is because, in most of that industry, I got tired of doing that stuff. I saw that there was something missing in my life. I was into HGTV.
It’s like all the flipping shows.
You can make a lot of money within 30 minutes. It seems good. I got hooked on it. I took some seminars. I bought into that sort of thing and went down the pyramid path of going through some of that training. I was a true standard real estate investor. At that point, I was wholesaling some houses. I tried to flip some houses. I did have some light construction experience. I felt like I had decent management skills. Ultimately, I fell on my face pretty quickly. I lost a bunch of money on a couple of flips. I did make some money, but I lost money in that business. I’m tenacious. I did not want to give up. I did not want to go back to W-2 jail. That’s what I looked at it as.
I got turned on to a local company coming to town. The guy’s name is Joe Varnadore with NoteSchool. He came in there. I was like, “This is interesting. You can make a lot of money. You could be the bank. You could buy these mortgages and all the stuff.” That’s where I met you. I took a couple of those three-day training classes. I had the spark and the desire. I want to make this kind of my business. It’s transitioned for some of my investors from my previous real estate. The time frame on this is about 2015 to 2016, just to give you some reference.
I went full force into it. I didn’t have a lot of money. I had some retirement savings but not a lot to work with. What do you do when you don’t have money? You have to hustle and find deals and people who need deals. You have to put the stuff together. You have to be a professional ultimately in between that because your name is out there. If you want to grow this business, word of mouth spreads pretty quickly, like their friends contact their friends. Before you know it, you have people contacting you that you’ve never talked to before because you’ve done things right, you stood by what you said, and then you made things right when things went wrong as well. That’s where I got into things around the 2016 to 2017 time frame of wholesaling loans.
It’s a logical place to go, especially if you come from a real estate background, which I did. There’s something attractive about, “I can do this without my own money. I simply have to find deals, develop my skill to identify what those deals look like, and be able to put them together with other people.” Inevitably, both in real estate and in notes, you have to keep that going all the time if you’re going to keep the income stream coming up.
Eventually, that’s good for a lot of people to start with, but the goal should always be something beyond that because once you have that skill of finding deals, it makes sense to get to that next level of money or in the business. You’ve got to start working with other investors. That could be as simple as partnering, which I know you did some of that, and/or starting to start to think of bigger partnerships, which would be building a fund. That’s the path you took.
Fast forwarding through an era before COVID, it was mainly hustling. It was finding these deals, flipping them to investors who have money, educating them and my audience. You mentioned about marketing myself. That was probably the weakest skill that I had out of all the skills I had, which I have many weak skills, but the weakest skill was marketing. I was comfortable with being uncomfortable, keep getting out there, repetitious and not realizing that I don’t have the greatest content in the world. I don’t have the greatest methods of educating and showcasing what I do, but if you’re consistent about it and you keep doing it, more and more people will connect with you, see and feel what your energy is, and gravitate towards that.
I started learning about hypothecation and selling partials. I would flip as many deals and try to get residual cashflow from them. I try to build my wealth. When COVID happened, things shut down aggressively, at least for me. I know a lot of note investors as well. What I had to do was figure out how I could generate money in this business. I started focusing more on content and helping drive people toward me. When COVID settled after a few months, people started releasing their cash and investing, so I could flip some more notes.
Lo and behold, I partnered with my friend Richard Thornton. We pulled our resources together and started investing together, partnering on all these deals, and then we ran out of money quickly. We said, “It’s time that we start a fund.” In 2022, we start a fund. We were raising $10 million to 506(b) fund. That’s my first stepping stone into a larger bank. It’s beneficial for us because we have a lot of experience investing in notes, performing and nonperforming, residential and commercial. Richard has a very strong commercial background. It made sense. Now, we don’t have to rely on finding investors to flip notes to. We can hold these notes for cashflow now. It’s a different world being a portfolio manager than being a wholesale note investor.
Sometimes, be careful what you wish for. Let’s go back a little bit and dissect this because I know one of the questions that always comes up is this, and people are always interested. You talk about finding investors. How do you find investors? How did you start to do that? I know for you, meetups played a role in that. I don’t know when and if social media became a part of that. When did you make a decision, “I’ve got to find some investors?” What was your path?
Starting out, it was going to fit physical in-person types of meetings. It was going to local REIA clubs and meeting with investors in general. I still am a part of a group called BNI. It’s a business network where you meet like-minded salespeople and business owners for small businesses in each different vertical. I got to know different people in that aspect to bring in some investors in there. I had my own meetup that was in person for several years. You were at one of them. You came down and helped us out with some educational stuff.
After building that rapport with people, they get used to seeing you. For the social media stuff, it’s hard to say, “How can I measure if that works or not to get new investors?” What it does is reiterate what you do and show that you’re out there, which is what you want to do, but I don’t know if it brings in new investors. What brings in new investors, in my opinion, is the in-person contact going to these events and getting to know people. Once they gravitate towards you or they know, like, and trust you, you gain a business relationship. We have a nice relationship where we don’t talk to each other every day, but every once in a while, we connect because we know we can rely on each other’s resources to benefit both of us and the people who invest with us as well.
Going into the fund, because I know there are other people who want to be fund managers, there is a learning curve. There are some things that you have to look at and be careful with. There is a positioning of assets. You want to keep the money working, but at the same time, you don’t want to get into bad investments. A big shift is going from buying an individual note where you can take the time, effort, and energy to examine the note versus, “I got to buy 20 or 30 notes at one time here.”
You don’t have that luxury of looking at all of them and the detail that you probably would if it was your first note, second note, or something like that. What are some of the lessons that you’ve learned in doing the fund management part? Readers, as a reminder, Justin Bogard is with the American Note Buyers. You can find out more about him. What’s your website that we can put up?
It’s ANBFunds.com. That’s our main website where you can get to find out more information about what we do.
You’ll see assets on Paperstack and such. Getting back to that, what are the lessons you’ve learned with managing funds, buying notes that way, and some of your approaches on those topics?
You touch lightly on it jokingly, but there is a lot of truth to it. You get what you wish for. You know the back-end history of funds and how they work and me sitting in this chair being a portfolio manager. I know how they work now. The simplest way to put it is not passive. You are running a business. You have to be very responsible with other people’s money and diligent about what you buy. You have to understand your expenses and your outgoing costs to the T in order to buy correctly to give yourself lower-risk investments to make passive income on them.Running a business is not passive. You have to be very responsible with other people's money. Click To Tweet
It’s very different. This is not something you should get into and think that you can sit back on the beach, sipping Coronas, and taking it easy. You don’t get to that point for many years down the road when you can have somebody take over your portfolio for you. In the beginning, I want to warn people. It’s very difficult. You’re running a big business and you have to be prepared to know all the ins and outs of running a big business.
It’s also important that you know your investors because things don’t always go smoothly and never will be. You’re going to get into some deals that don’t pay off as much as you like. You’re going to have some deals that go bad on you. You might even have some investors that say, “I want my money out.” There are certain rights and obligations on both sides of that. When you have investors that you know and that you have prepared the right way, meaning, you’ve let them know, “This is a long-term investment. It’s going to play out. It’s not one of these things like a stock market. You can be in today and out tomorrow.” Setting those expectations is a lot easier when you have those relationships where you meet people in person.
People always ask me, “Can you help me understand what I want to do as far as investing?” I put them into three buckets. I put them in a very passive bucket where they’re making couch money where they sit back and don’t have to know anything. They collect money. They get to the next stage where they are involved but they make good passive income from it, and then they get to the third bucket where they’re fully active and they’re engaged in it. They take ownership and accountability for these investments and stuff.
Once I decide what bucket they’re in, then I can help them go down the path of least resistance to them of what bucket they fell on. Most of the time, our investors are great because, thankfully, they trust me and they know that I have their best interest in mind. I’m going to make sure that they make money first before I do, and every portfolio manager should have that mindset. They typically want to learn and educate themselves to understand the investment and then they realize, “This is great. I understand. I believe in it. I know this works, but I don’t have the time for it.”
They fall back and say, “How can I be in this business but not in this business?” I said, “You want to be in the fund.” That’s a type of investment that you want to be in, to where you understand and believe it. It’s like an investor that invests in a blue chip company on the market they believe, in the tech, or the service that company’s providing.
They don’t want to be in the data operations, but they know that they’re going to benefit from it because they can see the future of, “Everything’s going towards like the Netflix movie that came out for Uber.” Everyone sees it. It’s going towards that. They had a ton of investors come in that wanted to invest in that because they solve opportunities of shared ride systems that are going to work across the world.
What’s your focus on the inventory? There’s a lot of different funds these days that some of them for example, as you know, they’ll go out and buy real estate, and then sell it with financing and create their notes that way which, eventually, they’ll season and sell. You’ve got others that go out and buy existing note inventory already and then they’ll either get those reworking and sell them or they’ll season them out a little bit and sell them off there. What does your fund do?
Our fund can do any of those things. Since we’re in the beginning stages of our fund, we start at the beginning of the year. Our primary focus is to be cashflow heavy. What we want to do is we want to focus on performing, residential, first lean loans that have great cashflow, low loan to values with high security, and that’s what we’re starting out now until we raise enough money to where we can take a little bit more risk and we can chew off some more nonperforming. We can start getting into commercial real estate because we all think that by the end of 2024, there is going to be a ton of availability for not performing commercial loans.
What we’re trying to aggressively raise capital for is to prepare for that point so we could take on perhaps 1 or 2 of those opportunities that come in front of us. What we’re seeing in the marketplace is there are not a lot of loans that are easily accessible to find. You have to get creative with them. Luckily, I have gotten skills from trainers and mentors like you to where I know how to market for these things that are off-market, that aren’t readily available for somebody to drop on a marketplace like Paperstack. That’s easy. That’s a low-hanging fruit.
That’s the stuff that thousands of people are looking at that you can go to, which is great for a seller, but for someone who’s trying to buy, you don’t want competition. You want to push people out of the way, go against the grain, and find a different path to find notes. That’s always been my specialty. I don’t typically have an issue finding notes. I usually have an issue having enough money to go out and buy these notes because by the time we finally note, we run out of capital, and we are like, “I have to raise more capital.” It’s always that balance.
Some people get into funds too quickly or, at least in their mind, they’re thinking, “I’m going to get a fund.” It’s like, “You have to have the education to know what you’re looking for and to know where to find these assets.” Like it or not, it’s a smaller industry. Part of it is being in it long enough that you know enough for the right people to get into some of these deals or, otherwise, you wouldn’t be able to get into it.
On top of that, it sounds like you’re doing it the right way in building it up and having a long-term plan because sometimes people don’t raise enough money. They try to run a fund and then they find out, “We don’t have enough money to do anything.” At that point in time, they buy a couple of things and then they’re looking for more stuff. You’ve got to hit that. Richard had a fund before.
He did a lot of apartment syndications back in the early 2000s before the big debacle. He did senior housing facilities. He had an $8 billion portfolio before they sold our company.
Richard brought some experience to the table with you to say, “Here’s how we raise it. You have to raise enough capital. You have to do it this way and run it there.” This comes up a lot. How are you doing your servicing? Typically, if you’re buying it, it’s already at a service or leave it there. Do you try to push them all in one thing? Are you using your own software programs to manage that? That always becomes an issue.
Everybody always says, “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket.” It’s true. You shouldn’t do that with everything that you do. We’re nimble. We have a lot of our assets with FCI because I’m trying to make our fund have a similar servicer, same thing with our collateral management. We pick a vendor to work with. We have two different vendors we work with ultimately with collateral management and we split them up between different companies.Don't put all your eggs in one basket. You shouldn't do that with everything that you do. Click To Tweet
It helps me to mentally know, “If it’s with this company, I know it’s at the fund. If it’s this company, I know it’s with our American Note Buyers portfolio.” That helps me. You pick and choose your vendor based on who you are, how they respond to your messages, and how they work with you. Communication is big to me.
I need to know what’s going on. I’m okay if the rules change, things go bad, or if I make a mistake. I need to understand what you do because I have to plan for the next 2 or 3 actions down the road. I have to see that far ahead in order to absorb any small loss so that I can have my bigger assets make up for those small losses so that, overall, the portfolio is always strong. I need to be able to do that. I have to rely on count on vendors that can give me that information in real time. At least, let me know so I can have a buffer when things get a little bit rough.
Communication is it is key. It’s nice when I’m able to get on a three-way Zoom with the client and someone at FCI or Allied and get whatever the issue is resolved. I did a podcast where Rick over a Paperstack interviewed me. One of the comments I made on is, “This is an imperfect business. You have to understand that things are not going to always go smoothly. There’s going to be a little stops and starts. If you get hung up on, ‘Somebody is 30 days late in the world. The sky is falling,’ you have to be able to understand somebody might make 12 payments in 12 months, but they’re not coming every single month. You can’t constantly call these servicing companies every week, ‘What’s going on?’”
You have to let things play out a little bit because these are long-term investments typically. We can sell partials and do smaller notes. Normally, we’re thinking in terms of long-term notes, long-term gains, and things like that. With your servicing companies, it’s nice to have a contact person that you can call and find out, but you have to have a balance with that as well.
I work with a lot of people. My clients buy all individual notes. They’re buying for their own portfolio. They’re not fund managers. In one week, “Such and such company are the worst. This one is the best,” and they’ll hear the exact opposite from another person the next day. They’re all different things. What happens ultimately is, as you gain experience in this, it’s like anything else. You build up those calluses a little bit. You expect a little different tempo than what somebody knew might come in and have big expectations. I imagine that’s the same way on the fund management side. You have a lot more balls in the air in somebody’s about 1 or 2.
Sometimes we pick on servicing companies a lot. You have a great example, some people have bad luck with one, or some people have great luck with one. It comes down to who you married to the best with these vendors. The vendors are important. They’re the lifeblood of what we do. They are the lifeblood of what I do as a portfolio manager. Without having a service in the company, I’d have to have 100 employees. I had people who were managing certain things.
Having these vendors is important and crucial, but they’re not perfect, nor is any business that you go out in the world. No business is perfect. You have to accept that. You have to understand what are the stock gates that you can get past. What are the things that work with FCI? I’ve heard people say great and negative things about them. I don’t have much bad luck with them because I understand their process.
I understand what they need. They didn’t have the receivables that they needed. I have to give them my deliverables. As long as I meet that criteria, everything works out fine. Anything in between when you go outside of that doesn’t work because they’re built to have a good system in place. Some people are built like that. Some people are freer about things and what things flow differently. Those services work well like that, but they all have different positive and negative parts to them. You have to figure out overall what works best for you.
They all do the same thing, but how they do it and respond is different. That’s one of those little learning curves. If you have an opportunity to go out and meet some of these vendors personally at events or things like that, that makes a lot of sense. I know we’ve done that over the years. Mike and his son from FCI came to probably six trainings that I did.
I got to know them well at Fort Lauderdale events and sat down with them. A big part of that is if you’re going to be in this industry at a bit of a higher level, it is in your best interest at some point time to go out, meet them, and have a chance to talk casually about how they approach in what they do because they are a little bit different, but they all do a good job. Sometimes, a little things come up.
I understand my people want to vent about servicers, but ultimately, they are doing the same thing and they try their best to do good jobs. Sometimes, the accountability is on the person in the mirror that you’re looking at. Sometimes it was you didn’t give the right information. You gave them incorrect information. You didn’t do it entirely fashion because you didn’t know about rules X, Y, and Z. Sometimes, accountability comes back on the investor and they need to accept that.Sometimes, the accountability is on the person in the mirror that you're looking at. Click To Tweet
It’s another nuance in the industry that we work with them. Once you start talking with them or whatever the problem is, everything we run into in this industry can be corrected or resolved. It just, “What’s the right way to do it?” One of the things with servicing companies is, “I wouldn’t want to have a service. It’s a lot of work.” They’re on the front line with that borrower. People who get into this business typically want to go, “I don’t want to deal with borrowers at all. I don’t want to collect money from people or call people.”
That’s what servicing companies are up to. They operate within. Things are getting easier in the business with the technology. Servicing is getting bigger because the industry is getting bigger, but also the ability to record documents and everything online now and get things like that is done much more efficiently. I’ve already seen big benefits on that as well. Do you guys use a lot of technology with what you’re doing?
I was lucky when I got into this business in the 2016 and 2017 time frame. A lot of technology was already built in. I don’t know what life was like in the early 2000s when you had to go hand deliver the documents to the county recorder or you had to mail and wait 9 to 18 weeks to get the document back and then you had to put it in your bank’s vault. I’m not sure when you’ve gotten the business, but perhaps you’re in the 2000s or before. Things were way different.
Nowadays, we utilize all the metrics. We have FCIs, one of our main services for the fund. They have a lot of great technology. Our collateral custodians have AI that can scan documents. It can extract and pull data from them so you can get in real-time what information needs to be pulled on so you can create more launches and assignments efficiently. Everything is eRecorded. You can now do notarizations over the camera. You’ve been able to do that for a while. All these things were built in.
The only thing new going forward is more AI integration that I see happening. We would like to be a part of that, but at the same time, you have to understand it because as my old computer programming teachers say, “Garbage in. Garbage out.” If you don’t have good data going in, you definitely are not going to have good data coming out.
I go back to the ‘90s. Joe and I were business partners in the very beginning. Back then, no cell phones. Nothing. When we started, we didn’t even have a lead list. Thankfully, that came along pretty early on, but everything we did was direct mail back then, which still works to this day. I talked with my veteran out of Arizona, Dave. He’s going back to direct mail to find leads. That’s always been a good resource.
There is value in finding off-market leads. That’s a good space to be in. Bank funnels, everybody has been waiting on the nonperformers. We get credit card debt going up. We’ve got delinquencies and credit cards going up. Auto deals are there. I saw foreclosures are up. BKs are up. The signs of the cracks are there. Dodd-Frank is still the law. If anything, the economy gets worse, we’re going to see more nonperforming bank-originated loans, which are not seeing now. Are you seeing them at your level?
I’ve heard the talk from people since 2018 about, “There’s a wave of nonperforming coming. Be aware.” That’s been years. I’m on the other side of the page. I’m not waiting for it and it’s not coming. We’ve learned so much from 2008-2010. It’ll never be the same unless we have a complete world economy failure that’s catastrophic and a nuclear reset. I’m not saying it. I’m not planning on it coming to fruition. The commercial space is real. That stuff will come down the line and you will see a lot more nonperforming commercial loans coming very soon within 2024. That’s my belief.
In residential, there are “foreclosures” coming up. It’s going up by margins because the last time I checked, there were about 30,000 to 35,000 foreclosures starting for a month. At the worst, there are 250,000. It is nowhere close to many event horizons to where I’m going to go run and buy a bunch of nonperforming notes and be ready to collect everything that comes through. You’re going to see more, but I wouldn’t be holding your breath if that’s what you’re trying to do. You should be nimble and do a bunch of different assets.
I used to do all the stats, the state of the industry research, and all that sort of stuff for years. I still do that for myself. I look at Black Knight Financial Services and, “What’s the track all this?” It’s not coming the way everybody thinks it is. There were some people going, “Keep your money ready.” I’m like, “You got to stay invested in this because they did learn some lessons from the last crash. I don’t care which side you’re on, but no administration wants to have a bunch of people going through foreclosure. Government programs will come into it. It’ll change.”
Thankfully, as a result of that last crash, we are in a situation where we have constant levels of inventory much steadier than we had in 2000. We had big cycles certainly back in 2019. I’m in agreement with you there. That’s going to change. On the commercial notes, we’ll see if Wall Street comes in and buys them up. That’s the only thing. If they try it and don’t sell them, then they’re not going to go that far. Historically, that’s what they’ve done, but maybe some of the smaller stuff leads through it. I hope it does because there’s a good opportunity in commercial space.
$100 million will be pretty much readily available in the nonperforming commercial space. That’s what that’s what I think is going to happen.
We’ll see what’s going on with that because business was always five years behind. We never saw a crash the last time before. With this one, there’s too much, especially in the office space. They’ll be conversions.
To put a pin on this, from my perspective, there were too many businesses started during COVID. There were too many entrepreneurs that went out to try to start their own LLC. A lot of them have to step back now and revert back to their W-2 job. There’s a lot of great operators. A lot of them don’t have the business skillset to run a business. Your brain has to work in both directions. You have to be great at your product or service and at a business for you to have a company that thrives.
A lot of these companies are going to fail. They’re going to revert back to W-2. Same thing with real estate investing, photographers, landscapers, and businesses that get over-saturated and stuff. It’s the same thing in our note investors. We get a lot of people that come in that want to start in note investing business, which is awesome. A lot of them recede and they fail back because they don’t know how to run a business. You get the core people that end up surviving that environment. That’s the people that have been a business for a long time.
With the inventory, we’re going to see steady so you can move strongly into the inventory that we have. We don’t need a catastrophic event or anything like that to drive our business. It’s changed since 2008 crashed. That crash elevated this part of the industry and exposed it. The number of people who are actively involved in the business is still small compared to the inventory that we have. It still going to be good times to the times to be had in this business.
Yields are there. Deals are solid and steady across the board. I’m not seeing anything that’s going to change that. I think it’s good. We’re seeing more creativity on the sales side of things. I’ve run into a couple of note solutions and stuff like that. People are offering financing and things. We’ve got good times ahead as normal in the business. Do you see anything different?
It’s good news for us in our business when the bank hones in on the criteria for their underwriting for someone to get through a bank loan. The seller financing world is growing. I don’t know if it’s up to $30 billion a year yet, but it’s probably pretty close by now. A lot of these states like Texas, California, you know your home state in Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina, all these states are doing thousands of loans of seller financing created every single year.
That’s only the ones that are recorded. We don’t know about the ones that aren’t recorded compared to the conventional world where there are probably $65 million in loans that Black Knight Financial Data records every year. Imagine all that inventory out there. It’s a very small world. There’s plenty of fish in the pond to go after. You have to know where to go to find it.There's plenty of fish in the pond to go after. You just have to know where to go to find it. Click To Tweet
ANBFunds.com. You can learn more there. He’s got a lot of information on the website and such. If you’re looking to pick up a book, he’s got a chapter in my book, Real Estate Without Renters, on Amazon. It’s been a pleasure having you on and getting to talk with you again at length. I do appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
Thanks, everybody, for reading. Please hit that subscribe button. It absolutely does help. Go ahead and check out the YouTube channel and subscribe to that. I do my tip of the day almost every day on other social media, I’ll be on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook. I have a little quick tips for you, but you’ll enjoy those as well. Thanks, everybody. I look forward to putting together another episode for you real soon.
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