Real Estate Without Renters | Mark W Bruce | Note Investor

 

A lot of the things you learn in real estate translate to the note business but a lot more don’t. More often than most people would like, you have to put some blinders on, forget what you know, and learn everything from scratch. Note investor Mark W Bruce knows this from experience, and his positive mindset over the whole process allowed him to build an impressive note portfolio in a short time. He joins Kevin Shortle on the show to give us a snippet of his journey and the wisdom he has to impart to anyone who wants to get their own share of the notes pie. Tune in for an incredibly insightful conversation!

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Interview With Note Investor And Proctor Gallagher Consultant, Mark W Bruce

I am here again with another episode for you of the show. Thank you as always for tuning in to the show. Thanks for those five-star ratings. I looked at the show and I’ve got all five-star ratings. That is awesome. If you enjoy the show, please give me a nice five-star rating. That does help. I can attract more guests and put on more episodes. I do appreciate that.

Also, please, thank you for sharing the show. If you’re a part of a meetup group, real estate investment club, or anything like that, please recommend the show. We can start to grow this, bring on great guests for you as we have for this episode, and be able to produce more of these episodes as well.

I’ve got a special guest I haven’t seen in quite some time. We’ve communicated by email over the years. This is somebody that I got to know very well because when I was doing three-day trainings, Mark came out to quite a few of them. We used to take random deals. I would go through a tape and start looking at deals, and inevitably, we’d find something that looked pretty good. Mark and his partner would end up buying some of those, which they still have. They’ve resold those. It’s nice to see all these notes go through the full range of motion here.

Also, when I started dedicating myself to doing personal mentorships, which is a service that I offer, working with people one-on-one through Zoom through every phase of this business, it took me several years to get to that point. I started by producing a book. One of the people I reached out to was our guest, Mark Bruce, who was kind enough to contribute two chapters to that book along with a couple of other people. That was really helpful in the beginning to get the word out and let people know what I was doing and what my mission was for the industry.

Welcome, Mark Bruce. How are you?

Great to be here.

It’s so good to see you. I mean that. You knew me in my past with other companies that I was working with and then going out on my own and making that decision. I had some goals in mind. I appreciate you guys jumping in on the book for me and helping me put that together.

We appreciate being part of your book. You taught us more about notes than anybody else that we’ve worked with. You are a great teacher.

Thank you. I appreciate that very much.

Drinking From A Fire House

My dad was a teacher, so I come from a teaching family. You were a great teacher. I appreciate it.

Thanks. That’s interesting because my grandmother was a schoolteacher, my younger sister is a schoolteacher, and her husband is a schoolteacher. In a way, I’m a teacher as well. I like it. I enjoy it. I like seeing the results that people get. It’s fun for me, and that comes through.

You’ve been to so many of my trainings. I’m sure I came up to you because I did it with other people that kept coming back all the time too going, “You got to get bored at some of this stuff.” You were hearing it over and over again, but you were always gracious with that.

Every time we come back, we’d learn more. Something that you said, the fifth time we heard it, was like, “That’s what he means.” Learning the note business for us was like drinking out of a fire hose. I’d been a real estate investor, but learning the paperwork and all that stuff was like learning a completely new foreign language in the beginning.

Real Estate Without Renters | Mark W Bruce | Note Investor

Note Investor: Learning the note business for us was like drinking out of a fire hose.

 

With your entrepreneurial background and then getting into notes, I thought my audience would be very interested in that because you were able to build up a pretty impressive portfolio in a fairly short period of time, quite frankly. Part of this is investment, and part of this is business. You certainly have to have that entrepreneurial spirit. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey?

Starting where? Where do you want me to start?

You were in an unrelated business to real estate. You were probably getting into real estate, I’m not sure, on the investment side, and then you saw notes. Starting from that, where did it come from? How much of this is entrepreneurial spirit in that pursuit? What attributes do you need to be successful in this business to build up a portfolio?

I am a serial entrepreneur. In 1985, my wife and I opened a retail business. We grew it to a chain that we ended up being bought out by a franchise. When we were bought out, our plan was to buy 100 rental properties in Baltimore City because the cashflow in Baltimore City was fantastic. We bought 6 houses the 1st year, and the 1st one was terrifying. The first time you do anything, it is terrifying, but we bought six. We hired three different property management companies to see who was going to be the best. We never bought another property. We tried three more property management companies and then realized real estate with renters was not what we thought it was. We kept them for a while.

The first time you do anything, it is terrifying. Click To Tweet

I’ve always been part of a mastermind group. I mastermind with my partner in Equity First Funding, Deborah Klemin. She was the number one Money Mailer franchisee in the United States, living in Orange County, California. She had sold her business and was thinking about opening a property management company. I was like, “Whatever you do, don’t open a property management company. Your tenants will hate you. Your landlords will hate you. You won’t make any money.”

We started researching, and that’s when we found your training and the training that you were working within. I didn’t realize what a big deal it was. I got her to fly from Laguna Beach, California to Columbus, Ohio . She didn’t have a coat because she lived in Southern California. She didn’t need a coat. I did not realize how much she hated cold weather.

We joined your training and then bought our first note shortly thereafter. It was terrifying the first time we did it. It was like, “There’s all this stuff,” but you made it easy. You were always there if we needed to ask a question. The community that we were part of at the time always answered. You could network with people who had other experiences. I find networking with people is really important.

I agree. In fact, I was at a conference for the 7th Annual Non-Performing Loan Conference held by IMN. I don’t know if you’ve been to that one.

I have not.

It’s not so much for the individual investor as it is for the folks who own the private equity firms. There were a lot of those people there. More individual investors should probably attend that because those are the people that you want to meet. They’re the ones who are buying in large packages and then divvying those up into bite-sized pieces, so to speak, for the small investors.

At this conference, I was speaking on a panel. We had a good presence in the room during our panel, but some of the panels were not well-attended because everybody was out in the hall networking. It was one of those events where everybody wanted to meet, exchange cards, and things like that. It’s a part of the business.

Being business-oriented, owning a business, and being able to sell a business like that, my thought would be that you have plans in mind. When you and your partner decided, “We’re going to get into this note business,” did you set a specific early plan or was it long-term? Was it a combination of both? What was your approach from a planning standpoint?

We’d both sold businesses. Our long-term plan was to try and replace our past income with passive income through notes. In the beginning, it was a little slower than we would’ve liked, buying 1 or 2 notes at a time every couple of months. We did eventually find some sources where we could buy multiple notes and bigger packages. It was probably good that we went through the learning curve. As a matter of fact, I know somebody who did. He pulled most of his hair out because it was too overwhelming to learn the paperwork. Our model was to only buy performing loans because we wanted cashflow. We didn’t want to deal with non-performing loans too much. Yet, when you buy performing loans, you occasionally get to learn how to deal with non-performing loans.

When you buy performing loans, you occasionally get to learn how to deal with non-performing loans. Click To Tweet

You are in a different market. I’m so bad with dates and timeframes. my wife’s excellent at that, so I’ve become dependent upon her for those dates and times. I know during that period, at least, and you probably know the dates, the inventory was quite different than it is now. In fact, I got a report. You’re familiar with Paperstack. It’s a trading platform. I’ve talked about it on this show before. I train the owners in the business as well. Their office is four miles down the road. I have lunch with them from time to time. They have a lot of activity on their website. They come out with an annual report. It breaks down what percentage of notes that were bought on their platform were performing, how many were not performing, what was the price range, and what were the ITVs.

I find it pretty fascinating because I believe it’s truly a good statistical sample of what’s going on in the tire industry. I was a little surprised. I was thinking based on my daily activity and working with all of my clients that there are probably 70% or 80% performing notes and 20% or 30% non-performing notes in the inventory pools. At the conference, a lot of those people were complaining about inventory. It was purpose-built for non-performing loans.

In the report that I looked at , 90% of the loans that were traded through Paperstack were performing and only 10% were non-performing. That was certainly not the case of what you were talking about. You were pursuing performing loans but in a world that, all of a sudden, we had that real estate crash in 2008, 2009, and 2010 and there were a heck of a lot more non-performing loans, right?

Yes. We started in January of 2016. There were a lot of non-performing loans and you could buy them pretty inexpensively. I had done some rehabbing in the past. I couldn’t wrap my hands around not being able to see the inside of a house to know what you were going to have to deal with. I kept waiting for Google to come out with that app you showed.

That was a good bit. What he is talking about was a good bit. It happened spontaneously one time, and after that, it was a part of the show, if you will. This is so you know what we’re laughing about here. At the live trainings, I would be working on my computer and we would look at deals. I would go online and look at public records. As a part of your research, you look at the property. You get on Google Maps and look at it.

I would tease everybody and say, “What a lot of people don’t know is down on the bottom right-hand corner, it might be too small for you guys to see on the screen,” so I’m baiting the audience into this,” but you’re able to see inside the house.” People are like, “No.” I’m like, “You go right here. First of all, you have to zoom all the way in, and then you have to click right on this button.” I would inevitably wait. I wait for that audience to lean in because they’re going, “No.” All of a sudden, I don’t stop. I keep going. They go, “What?” I got them.

That was fun.

That was a good bit. I haven’t done that in years. That tells everybody he’s been to my training a lot more than one time to remember those little things. You were in on the joke because you had already seen it before.

The first time, I was like, “You got to be kidding me.”

The Big Shift

The thought process, especially with real estate investors and folks like that with rehab experience, there are certain skills that are transferable from real estate. No question about it, but there are also some blinders that you can put on with some experience in that and it doesn’t translate over into the note business. I’ve got to reprogram some people versus people who come in with a clean slate.

Real Estate Without Renters | Mark W Bruce | Note Investor

Note Investor: There are certain skills that are transferable from real estate, but there are also some blinders that you can put on with some experience in that and it doesn’t translate over into the note business.

 

It is a little bit for people to go, “I don’t know what the inside looks like.” You take an educated risk on that sort of thing. Back then, especially because the inventory was shifted from what it is now, a lot more non-performing notes were selling so cheap where it’s like, “It’s a 1,000-square-foot home or 800-square-foot home. What would it possibly cost me to redo that?” It got a little easier for those reasons.

You started pursuing it. It started slow. To recapture where we were, you started buying 1 or 2, and then a blessing in disguise. You are able to start to buy in bigger packages. You got to a point, and I’ll skip ahead, where you wanted to change up your portfolio. It’s important in a market like this to have liquidity. Many years ago, we didn’t have as much liquidity or even more liquidity than what you had. What I mean by that is sometimes, things in life change. You found some different pursuits and you had a nice portfolio of notes, but it’s like, “Do we go into debt for this other business opportunity or do we liquidate some of our assets?” A lot of my clients scoop those up. What was the thought process behind that move?

We had a really good source for notes for a while. Things changed and we needed to make a shift from what we were doing. We didn’t intend to sell all our notes, but they were on our website. All but one got bought. The one that’s on there is a decent note. The person who’s living in the house was self-employed with a credit score of 450 and put a whole $1,000 down on a $54,000 house in a neighborhood where they probably sold for $50,000.

I sold her the house. I knew her background story. She had a compelling story. She has made all her payments on time. She even made it through 2020. We shifted. We were looking to get a little more passive so we could do some other things. When we did that, we had sold most of those notes. We are doing some hard money lending and buying some hard money lending notes from people. That was our thought process.

It was 2020 when something happened. I forget exactly what it was, but everybody started having a lot of time because there wasn’t as much to do. I can’t remember what happened in early 2020. I don’t think we’re allowed to say. I decided to get back into a book that I read in college which I keep with me all the time, Think and Grow Rich. That led me to Bob Proctor who studied this book. He studied the book from 1961 until the day he died in 2022.

Real Estate Without Renters | Mark W Bruce | Note Investor

Think and Grow Rich: The Landmark Bestseller Now Revised and Updated for the 21st Century (Think and Grow Rich Series)

He created some really good training programs. I went through them and then said, “This is interesting.” I got recruited to coach and teach people through it. It’s on mindset. It’s the mindset that helped me buy my first rental property when I was scared to death. It was the mindset that helped us buy our first note when we were like, “What’s going to happen? What if they stop paying?” I was learning how to do that, and I find that other people need to know how to do that as well.

I would hope that all of my audience have read Think and Grow Rich. If you haven’t, you need to. It’s an absolute classic. I read it early on in high school and college. By college certainly, mine’s all yellowed pages, highlighted, and all those sorts of things. It’s a great one. It does stimulate the thought process.

Part of the business, you go back and look at it, and we’ve touched around it but to put a pin on it, solving problems is what we do, whether it’s a performing note or non-performing note or creating a note, If you’re providing loans, that’s in the note business as well. You identify, think through it, and say, “Here’s a problem. Let’s identify it. Let’s come up with a solution.” That’s where the money’s made, right?

Think And Grow Rich

Yeah. Napoleon Hill wrote it. It took him twenty years to write it. He interviewed 500 of the wealthiest men in the world at the time. He started a little bit before the Great Depression and carried it all the way through. It’s got great lessons.

It’s timeless.

Some of the things in the book teach that we can all hear, see, smell, taste, and touch. We’ve got five senses, but there are six mental faculties that are stronger than those, which are perception, will, imagination, memory, reason, and intuition. W e use the will. We decided, “We are going to buy a note.” We focused on it like, “This is what we’re going to do with our business.” For perception, I was so lucky to have a partner because you could take a look at one note and I might see it this way, but she could see it from another point of view. To bring it to you and let you look at it with all your experiences, you can get an even better perspective on how to do it.

Will, perspective, and what were the others?

Imagination. The note business takes a lot of imagination. There’s memory and reason. Memory is obvious, but reason where you have the ability to think and say, “This person is doing this. This is the situation. How can I use that to the best benefit for everybody?” For intuition, people say, when you pray, you’re talking to God. When God’s talking to you, that’s your intuition. It’s your gut feeling. You know. You can’t see. Google doesn’t have that app where you can see in the house. You know, “This house is in this neighborhood. I can’t lose at this price,” so you can pull the trigger.

That’s interesting. I’ve always said to really master this business, you’ve got to know the numbers and the story. I’ve always said that and always felt that was true. As you were explaining those concepts there, part of what those things are is the story. For example, when we’re looking at notes, what’s the payment history? That’s not going to magically change when you buy it. It’s going to be, “That’s their payment history. It’s likely to continue in that fashion.” If they’re on a rolling 30-day or rolling 60-day, meaning they’re constantly 30 days late or you got a note where they miss 1 month and they catch up, that’s what it’s going to be.

One of the ones that stands out in my memory, to put a point on that one, was there was a guy up in what was either Wisconsin or Michigan, but up in that area of the country. I went back and looked at his payment history for three years. During three of the winter months, he never made a payment, but it was consistent over three years. I’m going, “What the heck is going on in the winter?”

I got some pictures of the property. It was summertime. You could clearly see the guy was in the lawn care business. I’m like, “Let me put this puzzle together here. He’s got the truck. He’s got the logo. He’s got lawn equipment.” He takes the winter off. He doesn’t go into the snow plow business during the winter. He says, “I’m done for the year.” Sure enough, that note continued on that specific pattern.

You look at the, “Do you have the investor tolerance for that?” B ack then, it was like, “They haven’t paid a mortgage payment in 4 or 5 years but the hedges are trimmed and the grass is cut. It’s well-maintained.” That translates to intuition. It’s like, “If they’re taking care of it, number one, the inside probably is reflected by the outside. Number two, they’re showing an indicator that they want to stay. They want to do some kind of loan modification. They ran into a rough patch.” You then look at public records and see, “They’re paying their property taxes even though they haven’t paid on the mortgage. They want to stay.” You get these indicators. That’s where the entrepreneurial mindset comes through in all of that.

That’s when you use your intuition.

It’s like, “Here’s my exit strategy. Here’s what I’m going to approach.” That’s very interesting. I bet you love teaching that philosophy.

I do, I love helping people. I’ve had businesses since I was 25 years old. I learned a lot. Some of it was not learned easily, but I learned things back then that helped me in the note business, which is fantastic.

Those things help in life. I’ll have to talk to you offline about that because I’m really intrigued by that. I’ve read it, but it’s one of those things that you read and put it back on the shelf and you got to refresh it. That’s the great thing about teaching. When you’re working with entrepreneurs who are working with you to develop this mindset, it’s got to be repeated. It’s got to be over. As a teacher, you repeat it all the time. It’s reinforcing for yourself too.

The book says to read the book 3 times and then go back to chapter 2 and do each chapter as the chapter says to do. I didn’t remember that from reading it in college the first time.

I don’t remember that either.

Notes On Mentorship

I was doing that in 2020. I was walking and listening to it on the audiobook. I listened to it three times, and then I ran it about Proctor. It’s like, “This guy studied this thing for 50-some years. I’m going to use some of the experience that he has as my mentor and let him fast-track me,” like anybody that wants to learn the note business should partner with you so that you can teach them. Had we not gone through your trainings, we probably would’ve never bought a note. Everybody needs a mentor.

Everybody needs a mentor. Click To Tweet

There’s a little minefield out there. That’s the thing. There are some people who try it on their own. They get into one bad deal and that’s their note experience. They’re done with it. I see things all the time. Perspective is different. I had a great case study. We had a note that was promoted to first position. My client has been working with me so he doesn’t need me for the day-to-day running-the-math sort of thing. He sees this note, runs his numbers, and makes an offer of $52,000 on a first-position performing loan.

He schedules an appointment with me one-on-one, back to the mentor aspect of it. I started going through it and I’m going, “There’s a loan here, another mortgage from 1996 and there’s no satisfaction. Maybe it’s there but it hasn’t been filed. Find out.” He asked and they didn’t have satisfaction. I said, “This is a second mortgage. This is not a first mortgage here.” It was a non-performing note. We knew that, but it wasn’t in first position. It’s a non-performing note in second position is a completely different story. That completely changed the deal.

The sellers were shocked that it was the second. We pointed it out to them and proved it to them. That changed the offer down to $17,000. He would’ve made a huge mistake in investing at that price. At $17,000 he was still looking to walk away. I looked at the first and went, “This is 1996. On their credit report, it shows a balance of $12,000. When I run the amortization, guess what? It’s about $12,000. You can foreclose from 2nd position and pay off the 1st.

In this case, it’s a $150,000 house. You’ve got a note with a $92,000 legal balance you’re getting for $17,000 if you need to foreclose.” It completely changed the thing where he would’ve either made a mistake in buying it or would’ve passed on the deal. It is things like that. Part of it is experience. There’s no replacing that. That’s where the mentorship comes in. What does Think and Grow Rich say about mentorship and such?

It’s got a whole chapter. Napoleon Hill had a mastermind. He had mentors. Andrew Carnegie was his mentor. As he wrote the book, Henry Ford utilized everything that he learned from them as they taught him, and then he incorporated it into the book. He also said a mastermind is a great way to get different perspectives and have a group that you can go to and have as mentors.

Real Estate Without Renters | Mark W Bruce | Note Investor

Note Investor: A mastermind is a great way to get different perspectives and have a group that you can go to and have as mentors.

 

The concept of mastermind  has been modified over time to the original definition. I have a little book I usually keep in my briefcase . He says with the mastermind, it’s two or more people. It doesn’t have to be a whole group. It’s two or more people with a common focus on a united goal. I’m not quoting that exactly correctly, but that’s what it is.

A lot of people are looking at masterminds and you got a room full of 20 to 30 people that might get 10 minutes about them. That’s changed from the original definition of what Napoleon Hills saw it was. The first chapter is on focus. It’s focused on a common goal. That’s what people need to realize when it comes to masterminds. It’s two people or more.

You can get something out of large masterminds like that.

It’s a group thing. There’s some value.

With the mastermind that Think and Grow Rich and Bob Proctor talk about, they recommend capping it at eight so that everybody knows what I’m looking for and I know what they’re looking for, and we can help each other. You go to the Mastermind not so much for what you can get, but what you can bring to the mastermind and help other people. The more you help other people, the more you’ll be helped.

The more you help other people, the more you’ll be helped. Click To Tweet

On Land Notes, Etc.

Jumping forward, I know you’re looking at land notes. It’s very interesting to me to see how inventory shifts. We’re looking at some new notes that you probably aren’t even familiar with, but there are a lot of HECMs, Home Equity Conversion Mortgages, which are the FHA-guaranteed reverse mortgages. As our population shifts and gets older, it’s natural that in the Baby Boomer generation, there’s going to be a percentage that is going to get reversed mortgages because there is a ton of equity in the house. Why not? They can be good programs for certain people in certain situations. They have a bad reputation in some circles, but when done properly, they can be very beneficial to someone.

A lot of those notes are hitting the market and being sold in different workouts with those. We’re seeing rehabbers starting to run into problems because inflation lumbers up. Everything that you utilize to renovate a house is more expensive. Rehabbers who got in borrowed high-interest rate money and it’s costing them more in time and money to fix it up. They are starting to go, “At the end of the day, who am I going to sell this to? How are they going to get bank financing to qualify this? I’m out.” They’re walking away from these short-term loans.

For the short-term loan lenders, which I know that you do some of that, you don’t want that property back at half a rehab. It’s like, “Now I’m in the rehab business again.” You want to sell that note. We’re starting to see some of those come into play as well. Land notes, for sure, have arrived. I know you got into that. I’ve done some at least tip of the days on that. I produced the video or something on it because it’s that much on the radar screen. You got involved in that. What attracted you to doing those?

One of the things that attracted me is you don’t have to worry about the shape that the house is in.

You don’t have to worry about what the condition is inside.

You can see if it’s in wetlands or if it’s got floodplains. You can see all that before you buy it. Most of them are 5 to 10-year notes, so they’re not super long-term. We picked up land notes that had unpaid balances as small as $12,000 on up to $150,000. They’re affordable. The people that are selling property with owner financing, there are a fair number of people out there who are selling that we can buy from at pretty good yields.

I got a tip for you. I’m looking at a land deal. Since a lot of these investors are buying the land inexpensively and then they’re selling it on terms so the price is higher, it’s hard to lock in what is a lot worth unless it’s in an area where a number of lots are being sold. If it’s a countryside lot, it’s hard to get a true value on something like that. It’s a little more speculative. Sometimes, they buy it so inexpensively and sell it at a higher price, creating a note than the person is making payments. No problem with that.

I’ve got one I’m looking at where it’s $50,000 around the numbers. $50,000 is what the guy paid for the land. I saw a survey where it’s already being plotted out where they’re going to put homes, so good future plannings, like good, higher, best use. He put $20,000 down and they have a $30,000 note. By searching public records, I found out how much she paid for the land, which I won’t go into here, but it was inexpensive. It was a good find. It was a good buy with the neighborhoods around it and everything else. I was comfortable with that valuation of $50,000, which is what he paid. Comparable sales say it’s worth $70,000. It sold a couple of months ago, so it’s worth $50,000. That’s what the guy paid, in my opinion.

In approaching that, I ran the numbers at buying the whole note at a good yield, but the note had zero seasoning. He’s got $20,000 down which balances out a little bit, but no seasoning, which means payment history. My approach was a concept you might remember called a multi-stage buyout. Instead of discounting the note at $30,000, she wants par for the note because she wrote the note at either 10% or 12$. It doesn’t matter. She wrote a note for that. She wants to sell the note for par at the full unpaid balance.

I could counter and say, “I’ll give you $26,000 and count my discount, but here’s what I’m offering. I’ll give you $30,000 for the note, which I don’t think anybody else is going to do. I’ll pay you $15,000 now and then in 5 years, I’ll pay you the other $15,000.” What that does is lower my overall cost of getting in. My yield, if I discount it, might be 12%. When you run the numbers on a financial calculator, it’s 20% I’m making. I then either set it up where I have the obligation to buy the backend or I have the right to buy the backend. That could be determined, and I’ll make another 20% per year in that 5 years.

It’s like buying partials instead of selling partials.

When you run the numbers, it’s 120-year notes, so I’m saying, “I’ll buy half of it now for half the money.” That’s pretty fair.

You’re always teaching me something new. This is great.

My yield goes up and my risk is down because I’m only in it for $15,000. I like land notes. There are some pitfalls. You mentioned a couple of wetlands. Avoid environmental issues and those sorts of things. Think if there’s a higher and best use. You’re right. It takes out the house problem or the improvement problem. As long as the land has a higher best use and you’re okay, take it back. That’s the thing. I had another guy buy something way up in New England. At the end of the day, he goes, “If they default, I’d love to have that land.” That’s all you need then. We don’t have to go further on that. Is your plan on that to build a portfolio?

Yes. That’s what we like to do. We like to build a portfolio of that. You do have to be careful. We’ve been buying some in Florida and there are sections on the West Coast down South in Fort Myers where they have this little bird called a scrub jay. If a scrub jay builds a nest on a lot, it’s no longer buildable. You’ve got to learn the markets that you’re buying in, for sure.

There’s a turtle thing too. I forget the name of the turtle that if they find those on there, you can’t develop. You can’t do anything. You’re right. That’s a good point about that. Mindset is important for all of the above, being able to think through these things, and Think and Grow Rich. Whatever these notes have in common, it does come down to, “What’s the collateral? What am I investing in? What’s my return?

It’s the six criteria that you value a note on. We don’t have to worry about the condition of the house, but you should consider the condition of the land. It’s the borrower. If they put a big down payment down with land, it’s not as big a deal. It’s the borrower. It’s the paperwork. It’s the terms. It’s the six pillars you have to worry about. It carries over pretty easily.

Are you looking at flipping over to being the one who buys the land and then creates the note?

We have tried some of that, and we’re doing a little bit of that. I ’m spending a lot more of my time coaching on mindset, but we have bought a buyer in-house. We have somebody who’s making calls for us trying to buy property for us.

Time has flown by here on this one. Mark Bruce is who we’ve been talking to. Do you have a website if anybody’s interested in learning from you about the mindset?

Sure. On mindset coaching, it is www.MarkWBruce.com.

I can tell you I’ve known Bruce for quite some time . You said the date there, so I can’t believe it’s only eight years. I would’ve thought it was longer than that. C heck him out. The mindset is an important part. Think and Grow Rich is a book that I’ve had to go through myself. It’s good for everybody in every aspect. If you’re looking for help in that area, Mark is your guy. Thanks again for being on. I do appreciate you. It was good to see you again.

It’s always great seeing you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me.

You bet. Thanks, everybody. I look forward to putting another show together for you really soon.

 

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